Q & A with Joaquin Lippincott, CEO of Metal Toad
How many employees does your company have? When did you start it and why did you choose Portland?
Metal Toad currently has around 60 employees, and we are growing at around 20 to 30 percent per year. So, assuming the market holds steady, we'll continue to add people.
I started the company 14 years ago in San Diego, and I moved up to Portland 11 years ago following my first employee. That particular employee was in the Bay Area at the time, and when we offered to relocate him, he chose Portland. Since I followed him up, there's a certain amount of luck to my being here. I have found Portland to be a great city, and I am proud that my second child was born in Oregon.
The easiest way to sum up what we do is to say we build software for companies. It's a little more involved than that as we actually help them decide how to build things, or what software to purchase as well as helping them to roll it out in the cloud and then support it over time. Examples: We're helping a major truck manufacturer build fleet management software, and working with Siemens Wind Power on software that reduces costs for offshore wind turbines. We're helping pioneer the future of live sports viewing, and managing web and mobile properties for entertainment companies like Sony, DC Comics and the Golden Globes.
According to the state's Office of Economic Analysis, using data from 2015, Oregon's high tech sector makes up 25 percent of the state's GDP and 45 percent of its exports. Why do you think Oregon's economy is dominated by the technology industry? Is this a good thing?
Over the past 10 years, Portland has simply been the last affordable city on the West Coast. Tech refugees from Seattle and California stumbled on it and realized this was a place they could afford to buy a house and raise a family. Once a nucleus of tech was established here, word got around about a green paradise with low cost housing, great food, excellent public transportation and progressive politics, and it's been nonstop growth ever since. The reason tech is such a bright spot for GDP in Oregon -- there are effectively no capital costs required in its production, no harvest to wait for, no roads needed for transportation, and no export or import tariffs. Not only that, but the reach of software is global, and any revenue captured is transported instantly back home, which is then converted to salaries and profit.
Because the ascendance of software in Oregon is largely a Portland phenomenon, we can look at cities like San Francisco to see the natural progress of reliance on tech. Left unchecked, software is an incredibly efficient engine to draw capital into a community and concentrate it among a small group. The Bay Area shows us what that looks like: gentrification of entire urban areas through hyper-localized inflation caused by salary growth. I believe that software can be an incredible force for good within a community, but only if we change the prevailing model to create a significant increase in the number of entry-level jobs available.
Should Oregon's technology leaders/executives have a duty to invest in the state for the longer term, both economically and civically? How would you describe the investment perspectives/attitudes of your technological brethren?
Whether Oregon's tech leaders have a duty to invest in the state is irrelevant. The answer to that is yes, but the more important question is: Will they? Unfortunately the answer to that is likely no. Due to the financial structure of most tech start-ups, they have almost zero incentive to invest in anything other than their own company. They don't require infrastructure investment, and they generally live in a bubble where everyone they know is well-compensated and loves their job. Layer on top of that, they generally come from out of state and have large buckets of money and investors who require progress on a one-, two- or three-year horizon, and you have a recipe for almost no economic or civic engagement. I find this incredibly ironic given the progressive politics of the tech industry, but there is almost no interest in things that are not directly related to tech.
Oregon economist Josh Lehner estimates that Oregon's tech sector has leveled off in terms of job growth in the last 12 months, while nationally the sector has been booming -- Google, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, etc. The Oregonian's Mike Rogoway quotes Josh Hartung, CEO of PolySync (an autonomous driving start-up): "People move to Oregon to settle down ... the net effect is we don't shoot as high as some other cities on the West Coast, and also frown on those that do." Is there any merit to the idea that Portland is a "lifestyle" city and that we suffer from an innovation deficit?
People move to Portland because they are tired of the rat race, but they still want to live in an urban center. For the past four years there's been significant investment in tech from out-of-state investors who saw relatively low salaries for similarly experienced talent. But salaries have been bid up by more than 40 percent over the past four years. Not only are we approaching parity with some of the larger cities (the Bay still pays a significant premium), but we have developed a reputation as being "lazy." That is to say, programmers in Portland want to work around 40 hours per week, not the 60 to 80 hour grind that some of the larger metros see. Personally, I know it is possible to find amazing talent, incorporate work-life balance and turn a profit, but I know several Bay Area companies with satellite offices here that are regretting their investments and at least one considering pulling the plug on their Portland office and moving everyone to a different city on the West Coast.
Since the recession of 2008-9, Oregon has seen growth in high-wage jobs and low-wage jobs, but a decrease in middle-income jobs. Why? What's driving the disparity that the state economist refers to as "Oregon job polarization"?
Automation is to blame for both the rise in high-income jobs and the decrease in middle-income jobs. Middle-income jobs were expensive enough that it was worth the investment into software and hardware to "optimize" the jobs away. This automation also created a number of higher income jobs for the knowledge workers that build, maintain and improve the automation tools. The lower income jobs have increased simply because the economy has grown and the labor is too cheap to warrant replacement. Unfortunately, the increase in the minimum wage will hasten the replacement of those existing jobs causing additional job loss in the lower income jobs and an additional increase in high paying jobs. Despite this impending disaster, I am not in favor of freezing the minimum wage, as eventually all jobs that can be automated will be. Instead, by raising the minimum wage we will propel ourselves into the future, making ourselves natural centers of the automation revolution. States and countries that hold on to low paying jobs will eventually face an even bigger collapse as those industries supported by cheap labor are supplanted by even cheaper robots (that were designed in places with high minimum wage). In Denmark, by way of example, it is cost prohibitive to hire someone to mow your lawn because labor is so expensive. The net result? Most people own a robot lawn mower.
The average salary for a tech employee in Oregon is $106,000 annually, more than double the state's median salary of $48,000. Yet last year on your blog you wrote, "The Software industry is facing a workforce shortage of unprecedented proportions. The Bureau of Labor Statistics is projecting a shortage of 1 million people over the next five years -- when they compare the number of jobs that will be posted that require a Computer Science degree versus the number of graduates the university system will be able to turn out." If the industry pays so well, why is there a shortage of entry-level programmers?
The problem is multi-faceted, but the short answer is this: It's not that there aren't enough entry-level programmers, there aren't enough entry-level jobs. Being a programmer is not unlike being a different type of professional, like a doctor, lawyer or an accountant. If you are like most people, when you go to see a doctor you want someone who has experience. And the more serious your need (heart transplant, etc.), the more selective you are likely to be. As a result, in most professions, there is a strong pattern of apprenticeship; doctors have residency, lawyers have to work their way up, and accountants start with paperwork. In programming, there is no parallel. Let that sink in. How on earth would we ever have the right number of doctors if all the doctors in the world had to fend for themselves for the first part of their career? Imagine all the terrible misdiagnoses and surgeries gone awry, and that's basically the state of tech. Given this context, it is no shock to me that we have hacking events that surface all the time. To make matters worse, this has created a culture that worships the senior developers and scorns "newbies." Once you are established in your career it's great, but trying to break in is very difficult. Play this scenario out year-after-year and it's easy to see why salaries are so high and people have such a hard time getting started. We don't have a talent shortage; we have a broken talent pipeline.
You recently started a nonprofit to help create vocational programming schools and apprenticeships (The Open Source Apprenticeship Model) as part of the solution to this problem. Why haven't the brick and mortar universities been better at anticipating and solving this problem? Do you think your nonprofit approach can train the numbers needed in our area in future years?
Brick and mortar universities are very interested in being part of the solution, but the pace of tech is blinding and our university education system moves at a deliberate speed. Technology changes every year, and it can take years to get a new curriculum in place. That said, I have met with and seen interest from PSU, OSU and PCC. Our VP of technology, Tony Rasmussen, is now on a curriculum steering committee for PCC. Certain universities like Stanford and Berkeley have gotten a jump on the rest by staying in lockstep with large tech companies in their area.
The real gap in the industry is entry-level jobs, which is a barrier not only to people looking to shift careers via some of the code boot camps, but also university graduates who may have trouble finding their initial entry into the industry. My hope with the nonprofit, the Professional Alliance For Tech Hires, is to celebrate companies that are creating entry-level jobs and to provide a space where they can share experiences with one another regarding what works and what doesn't. While I don't know that we can solve everything, there are a lot more people out there who deserve a chance than currently can find one.
As your company grows, do you plan to keep it locally owned and based in downtown Portland?
That's a good question. It fundamentally boils down to how long Portland is the place where my team wants to work and the business situation remains tenable. Portland still has a lot to offer: good public transportation, great food options and decent housing options (we haven't moved to multiple roommates and subleases passed along like in San Francisco). The educational system will be the next big challenge for my young team members, who in many cases are starting families.
This year we are crossing a milestone of opening a new office in Los Angeles and having two of our team members start remote work in other states. Metal Toad is an Oregon corporation, though the anti-business rhetoric here is certainly something I am paying attention to.
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